並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E7%A4%BE%E5%A4%A7%E5%80%86%E8%81%BD%E9%A1%98-%E4%B8%AD%E6%AD%A3%E7%A4%BE%E5%A4%A7zzcc-OlnVPe6iyUd/