並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%A4%9C%E9%A4%98%E8%AE%80%E6%9B%B8-ep37-%E5%9C%A8%E9%AB%98%E9%9B%84%E5%B1%B1%E4%B8%8A%E6%89%BE%E9%A3%9F%E6%9D%90-%E5%8D%97%E6%96%B9%E9%A2%A8%E5%9C%9F%E9%A4%90%E9%BB%9E%E7%9A%84%E6%84%9F%E5%91%B3%E6%9B%B8-%E5%B1%B1%E8%A3%8F%E9%A3%9F-%E6%97%A5%E8%A8%AA%E9%BE%9C%E6%99%82%E9%96%93%E5%92%8C%E5%B0%8F%E9%9C%B2%E5%90%83/id1517631174?i=1000546092855