並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep71-%E9%BE%9C%E5%9C%A8%E5%AE%B6%E4%B8%8D%E5%A6%82%E7%92%B0%E5%B3%B6%E5%AF%AB%E9%81%8A%E8%A8%98/id1552531283?i=1000565401745