並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep17-%E6%B7%BA%E5%BA%A6%E8%A8%AA%E8%AB%87-%E5%81%9A%E5%A5%BD%E4%BA%8B%E5%89%8D%E6%BA%96%E5%82%99%E8%B7%9F%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%BB%BA%E8%A8%AD-%E6%89%8D%E8%B8%8F%E4%B8%8A%E8%AE%8A%E7%BE%8E%E7%9A%84%E8%B7%AF%E7%A8%8B-%E4%B8%8B-ft-%E9%86%AB%E7%BE%8E%E5%B0%88%E7%A7%91%E9%BB%83%E5%B9%BC%E9%B3%B4%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%AB/id1541970285?i=1000537214868