並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-23-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E5%A9%A6%E5%B9%BC%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E5%93%81%E7%89%8C-%E4%B8%8A-%E5%B9%B3%E5%B8%B8%E4%B8%8D%E6%95%A2%E5%A4%AA%E5%9B%82%E5%BC%B5%E8%AB%87%E5%AF%B6%E5%AF%B6-%E6%9C%89%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A9%E5%BE%8C%E8%B7%9F%E8%80%81%E5%A9%86%E7%9A%84%E7%9B%B8%E8%99%95%E4%B9%8B%E9%81%93-%E7%96%AB%E6%83%85%E4%BE%86%E8%87%A8%E7%9A%84%E9%99%AA%E7%94%A2%E7%B6%93%E9%A9%97-ft-%E5%8F%B0%E9%80%9A%E9%80%9E%E8%AA%A0/id1620755791?i=1000568735142