並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E8%81%8A%E8%81%8A%E7%AD%96%E5%B1%95-ep04-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E6%96%87%E5%8C%96%E7%9A%84%E8%AE%8A%E8%88%87%E4%B8%8D%E8%AE%8A-%EF%BD%98-%E5%9C%A8%E4%B8%8D%E6%AD%A3%E5%B8%B8%E7%9A%84%E7%A4%BE%E6%9C%83-%E5%81%9A%E4%B8%80%E5%80%8B%E6%AD%A3%E5%B8%B8%E4%BA%BA-%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA-%E7%88%B5%E5%A3%AB%E6%A8%82%E6%89%8B-%E8%AC%9D%E6%98%8E%E8%AB%BA-%EF%BD%98-%E8%A9%A9%E4%BA%BA%E9%B4%BB%E9%B4%BB-%E4%B8%8B/id1641687325?i=1000577554113